MOBILE
Settlement awards officer job, back pay
Thoma was fired after drunken hit-and-run
February 22, 2012 - Updated: 7:38 p.m.
A Spokane police officer fired in 2009 after driving drunk while off duty, hitting a pickup with his truck and leaving the scene of the collision is likely to be rehired and get more than two years of back pay.
In a settlement mediated by the Washington State Human Rights Commission, Brad Thoma will be rehired March 1 in a demoted position of detective, if the Spokane City Council agrees to the deal on Monday. Prior to his firing in December 2009, Thoma was a sergeant.
Thoma also would be paid about $275,000 for back pay and benefits, and the city will pay his attorney $15,000. The back pay is based on the amount he earned as a sergeant.
Bob Dunn, Thoma’s attorney, said Thoma had a disability – alcoholism – that resulted from stress from his job. He argued that the police department knew Thoma struggled with alcoholism and didn’t try to get him help. Thoma filed a complaint about his firing with the Washington State Human Rights Commission soon after he was terminated.
City officials said Thoma was disciplined for his actions, not alcoholism. Assistant City Attorney Erin Jacobson said she is unaware of evidence that the city knew that Thoma was an alcoholic until he claimed to be one after the crash.
Jacobson said the demotion is a sign that the city believes that officers can be disciplined for off-duty illegal behavior.
“When you’re a police officer, you should know better,” she said.
Dunn likened the incident to someone who got into a collision as a result of seizure caused by epilepsy.
“If your disease is a result of your job and your employer knows it and you’re sick and need some help, it’s the duty of the employer” to get the employee help, Dunn said.
The settlement follows a trial last year in which a jury awarded Detective Jay Mehring $722,000, mostly for emotional distress and pain and suffering. Mehring was placed on unpaid leave from the police force after he was accused of threatening to kill his wife during a messy divorce. He was reinstated to the force and given back pay after a jury acquitted him in October 2008. Dunn, who also represented Mehring, was awarded an additional $833,000 in attorney’s fees.
The city is appealing that decision.
Dunn also represents former Detective Jeff Harvey, who filed a lawsuit earlier this month after being fired last year. Harvey was charged with obstruction of justice following a January 2011 encounter with a state Fish and Wildlife officer, but a jury voted 5-1 in favor of acquittal in September, and prosecutors declined to retry the case.
Interim Police Chief Scott Stephens said the settlement and judgment won’t stop him from disciplining officers who deserve punishment.
“I will make sure that what I do is legal, justifiable and follows due process, and I’ll do the right thing,” he said.
Stephens said he has faith that Thoma’s “supervisor will hold him accountable and require him to do the job that he’s supposed to do.”
He said it’s rare for officers to be caught driving drunk. He knows of a few who have been disciplined but have gone on to have successful law enforcement careers.
“Drunk driving does not necessarily have to be a career-ending event,” he said. “The key is that you don’t repeat the behavior.”
Thoma was driving a pickup on Sept. 23, 2009, when he hit another pickup near the intersection of Farwell Road and U.S. Highway 2, then drove away.
The victim and another driver followed Thoma to a supermarket, where Thoma told a state trooper he’d been planning to buy steaks.
Thoma, whose blood alcohol level was measured at 0.171 after the crash, avoided criminal prosecution under an agreement approved in Spokane County District Court. The deal stipulated that he use a breath test device to start his car. He also was required to complete a rehabilitation program within two years. Jacobson said Thoma is in compliance with the agreement.
Then-Chief Anne Kirkpatrick declined to allow him to install breath test equipment in his patrol car or to sign a waiver to allow him to drive his patrol car without the breath test equipment. The city offered to place him on “layoff status” to see if he qualified for another civil service job that didn’t require a driver’s license, Jacobson said.
That offer was rejected, and Thoma was fired.
Dunn said Thoma agreed to take a demotion “so he could put this behind him.”
“He’s a good police officer with a medical problem that needed to be addressed and is being addressed,” Dunn said.
This story was changed on Feb. 22, 2011 to correct an editor’s error regarding the outcome of Jeff Harvey’s trial.
Ah, yes…every day in Spokane you can just hear those cops after a collar saying to each other…
“Poor guy…too bad his employer didn’t get him the help he needed. It’s his boss’ fault!”
We don’t hire cops here, we adopt them.
I can’t imagine why this guy thought the city should sign a waiver for him and u got to be friggin kidding me on installing breath tests on city vehicles. No private company would ever have to make that type of accommodation.
Accommodations for the disabled have to be within reason and this just wasn’t. I can’t believe he’s getting back pay.
With that said, I don’t understand why they didnt find him a desk job like they did Thompson. As far as I’m concerned he was a better candidate for a desk job than Thompson was.
C-O-N-S-O-L-I-D-A-T-I-O-N
“Drunk driving does not necessarily have to be a career-ending event,” he said. “The key is that you don’t repeat the behavior.”
Tell that to truck drivers and a lot of other occupations as well as those who have lost loved ones because of drunk driving incidents.
“________does not necessarily have to be a career-ending event,” he said. “The key is that you don’t repeat the behavior.”
just fill in the blanks for those “special people: in blue
This is what you get when you let the health insurance industry, make up fake diseases, just to make money. America is now willing to believe outright nonsense, if you repeat it often enough.
He has 10% of a point.
90% says he should have got[ten] treatment on his own volition; he had platinum level mental health care coverage and short term disability that would pay nearly his total salary while under [FULLY paid-for] “treatment”, for at least a year.
Yes, he was/is an addict, but he had the best resources in the world to fix/mitigate that. Long ago. Many have done it.
And not be carrying around superior firepower and superior presumption of innocence/legitimate authority, wielding deadly force against the citizenry wile policing impaired.
give him a breathalizer to start his car so he could go out and arrest drunk drivers. if he is capable of that why should the employer be responcible? what did he do for a living while he was off? is this double dipping? earn a living and get lost wages too. so if i did my math right he is getting nearly $45.00 and hour plus benefits. a medical plan like that could be another 2 grand a month. so i guess becoming an alcoholic isnt in the oath they take. with a system like this where is the incentive for any of them to show up sober.
City of Spokane…YOU HAVE GOT TO BE JOKING. You gave 275k of our tax dollars to a drunk cop and his job back? Your going to put a Blow and Go in a freakin cops car? Wow…a new low has been reached in Spokompton.
I would not at all be surprised that Karl Thompson’s attorney will not come up with some diagnosis like PTSD to justify the beating death of Otto Zehm. When do people take responsibility for their behavior. Does that mean every arrested DUI driver should not be charged if some Dr. diagnosis Alcoholism. The police are held to a different standard than the public. It is no wonder that the public has justified suspicion about what the police do.
Anyone with any sense could see the ADA thing coming; it always does in DUI cases with public employees…another Anne Kirkpatrick/City Attorney special. You cannot fire a public employee for a first offense DUI. The County knows that, why doesn’t the City.
The reason this went before the Washington State Human Rights Commission is because Alcoholism is considered a disease and disability. Every police department in the country knows that and disciplines accordingly.
Thoma could have been disciplined or perhaps terminated if he were convicted of the Hit and Run Charges because the Hit and Run speaks directly to his honesty and integrity as a police officer. But because those charges were plea bargained away and were not the basis for his termination as they should have been this is what you get and this is what you deserve. A smart defense lawyer agreeing to a plea deal which dropped the Hit and Run charge knew that once that happened it was very likely his client would get his job back.
Comparing an epileptic seizure to CHOOSING to get stoned on booze because work is getting you down, while protecting and serving? I don’t think one needs to be smarter than a fifth grader to realize this is the biggest crock of crap … . . the guy needs to find a different job.
So the story continues, they should make the escapades of this organization into a movie – to bad the state wants to cut the movie industry.
Is there someone else that could manage this job better? Do we, as citizens, get a choice? I’m just asking. I heard the county sheriffs office was looking for the job.
We are as strong as our weakest link … … ..
Enough Spokane. You can’t afford this police department. Shut it down and contract with the Sheriff’s Dept.
This is AWESOME news! Congrats to Officer Mai Tai for RIGHTFULLY getting his job back! I’ve never been HAPPIER as a taxpayer to pay his back wages!
Now, to be fair to EVERYONE, I can’t wait for the SPD to stop arresting impaired drivers everywhere, being as alcoholism is a disease for which drivers aren’t responsible. Much like epilepsy, which according to his attorney is similar to alcoholism, it is a physiological defect uncontrollable by the suffer (though to be fair, you can’t go to the store and buy a fifth of epilepsy).
INTEGRITY is back!
Loudin
PS: Officer Mai Tai better not EVER pull me over for DUI, because that would be HYPOCRITICAL.
BTW: Here is a link to Thoma’s photo, in case you want to know what clown you’re dealing w/if he tries to pull you over for something:
http://media.spokesman.com/photos/2009/12/23/cit23_THOMA-rh_12-23-2009_A2HLK8C_t470.jpg?84974f3f373deb0dda0f75a22ddd9b7d3a332b26
I know if this guy pulls me over, I’m going to keep my window rolled up and call one of the local TV stations w/my cell (maybe record a little footage for YouTube too). Tell ‘em I got Officer Mai Tai next to me, trying to enforce laws he doesn’t abide by. I mean, if the SPD is going to embarrass themselves w/this garbage, why shouldn’t I embarrass them too?
Oh yeah, that’s right: If I resist, I might die…
Loudin
Public employees belong to an exclusive club that has been wearing thin for decades, i. e. double standards. Corruption is alive and well at Spokane`s city hall. It reminds me of the city officials that attempted to cover-up Otto Zehm`s homicide, and if it hadn`t been for video tapes when poor Otto tried to buy a candy bar, the citizens would not have known anything about the tragedy,IMO. I guess double standards may be the reason Mayor Condon joined the double standard public employees club (looking the other way) and Roco Treppiedi continues to be employed by the city of Spokane. I admit I was gullible believing if Condon were elected mayor, he would fire at least 4 employees as his first order of business. WRONG! One has to ask, how many culprits at city hall were involved in Zehm`s cover-up? Heck, I was surprised when Condon appointed his City Attorney, Mr. Delaney (knowing it meant he`d keep Rocky employed). Look at the list of people he appointed with credentials that at best makes me wonder why? Gavin Cooley, Bobby Williams, and Treppiedi and Delaney, makes 4 that should be kicking cans down the cover-up road.
Once again, Another highly qualified Detective is born :^( What a joke !!
The so called “State Human Rights Commission”, using ADA to excuse a drunken **shole is an abomination and shouldn’t even be applicable in this situation. Who are these jokers anyway? We can’t even fire the worst of the worst cops.
The city needs to refuse this “settlement”.
Why not? It’s business as usual. 505 probably loves this.
“Jacobson said the demotion is a sign that the city believes that officers can be disciplined for off-duty illegal behavior.”
How about on-duty illegal behavior Ms. Jacobson? Can and should an Officer be terminated for conspiring to the illegal entry of a private residence, or is on the job dishonesty only worth two weeks off without pay? I guess that question has been answered hasn’t it? I wonder how “negligent retention” might play into anything else that might come up in the future.
Might as well get prepared. As much as hate to see it there is a good chance Jeff Harvey will get his job back as well, because of the way he was improperly terminated by Kirkpatrick and the City Attorney. The only way he might not get his job back is if the City agrees to a very large financial settlement in lieu of reinstatement.
BTW, this (Thoma) was probably the Detective position that has been mentioned in reports regarding a Property Crimes Unit; the City knew it was coming.
Totally agree with SpokaneIsFun! Fire the entire SPD and let’s get the Sheriff in here to clean house. We also need to change the law in WA to eliminate this ongoing fraud termed mediation. The reality of this entire matter is of course, unless we get some prosecution fires lit, along with city attorney reps eliminated, then the abuse will continue.
HEY MAYOR CONDON…ARE YOU LISTENING??? IT APPEARS THAT YOU AREN’T. Rocky is still around and you are showing signs of picking your political nose. WAKE UP! and TAKE ACTION.
What? No cop defenders? Nothing about how we have no idea what they are up against?
This settlement is like p*ssin’ on every good cop. Where are you guys who see this as an insult to YOU, the good ones?
This settlement also shows how immature so many of the folks in uniform are. They get to dress up in Big Army clothes and shake down anyone they don’t like, and if any authority has a problem with that, well, so what?
Now, we know, even if they do it drunk, they get a bye at least the first time because it’s someone else’s fault.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha……..
This is just so wrong on so many levels. It almost makes me believe that we’d be better off if employment was “at will” for everyone union or non-union, protected class or non-protected class. Firing a cop for being an alcoholic is like firing a professional basketball player for losing his legs — it may be an unfortunately medical condition and it may not even be the employee’s fault, but it sure as hell affects their ability to do their job. It shouldn’t even be a “human rights” issue.
What Thoma should have done was get himself clean and sober and find a job somewhere else. Yes he would have had to start at the bottom and work his way back up again. Sometimes our choices in life have consequences. It wouldn’t have been the end of the world.
Unbelievable!! Only with a govt. job!! Nice paid vacation on me!
no surprise here, Harvey will be getting his job back too, where else can you be a drunk and blame it on your job? no where unless your a Spokane cop.
if the lady in the truck he ran into would have pressed charges this might have taken some of Thomas cash but as it is she has a constant neck ache and Thomas has his job back. If he had any compassion he would send her to Hawaii as a thank you. But more to real life he will just have his buddies ransack her house and shoot her dog.
I wonder since he is a detective if he can appear at trials?
Uneffingbelievable.
@Scoutster
I know it doesn’t sound right, but that is the way it is, and it is the law. The SO has had some Deputies that have received up to four DUIs before they were terminated. The SOP for a straight DUI (No other charges) is Suspension, Last Chance Contract, and Accommodation if necessary and available. It is the proper way to handle it so you don’t end up like this costing the taxpayer even more money. The County has it down pretty good although there has been a Deputy that had two last chances.
You can’t fire a teacher, a fireman, a City Attorney, a County Attorney, or Meter Reader for a single DUI unless there were circumstances beyond the DUI. When the Americans with Disabilities Act included alcoholism as a disease and disability it closed the door on the automatic termination of public employees for DUI, most law enforcement and government agencies are very aware of that.
Business as usual :(
So let’s see - you can shoot a guy in the back of the head when you’re drunk if you’re a cop and walk away free, you can do the hit and run gig and get quarter mil from the city, you can beat a man mercilessly and get a whopping 2 years while making a mockery of the system remaining free while lawyers posture, you can buy a degree online from Mickey Mouse U as half dozen WSP’s did and rip off the state for thousands in pay and get zero recourse when caught, you can hang your package out for a barista and get a slap on the hand - it’s all just such a joke. I would like very much to have some respect for these people with a gun and a badge but they make it impossible to do so. It’s a sad and pathetic statement of the state of this country. I quit being a proud american many years ago just because of such garbage. Land of the free and home of the scammers, slackers and welfare recipients. Oh - and don’t forget to fly your flag at half staff for the dead drug addict Whitney.
Alcoholism is not a disease… just don’t drink so much.
If a driver at a private company crashed his company vehicle while driving drunk, there is not a chance in hell he would get his job back, but special treatment for the boys in blue is business as usual i suppose.
Oh - and one more thing - I don’t buy this BS that alcoholism is a disease. It’s called lack of will power and character. It’s called being a weak individual that can’t face the man in the mirror and put the bottle down. Nobody magically comes out of the womb an alcoholic. You BECOME one by being an irresponsible drunk. Put the bottle down and have some gonads and don’t drink.
But no - it’s a disability. Handicap parking sticker and free rides on the short bus. Free housing and disability pay. Free counseling and hand holding while you snivel the rest of your life about how hard it is….
Puleeeeeezzzzzzzzzz!!!!!!!
@Live
That should be “Bad Business” as usual. Had Kirkpatrick and the City handled this properly from the beginning Thoma would have received a suspension consistent with progressive discipline. They didn’t and because they didn’t the City Administration not only cost the public money but also allowed some people to laugh in the publics face…as you can see.
I do think alcoholism and other drug addictions are a disease in the sense that some people are born with a propensity to enjoy being drunk, high, or whatever. So, call it a congenital birth defect. It’s not a disease in the sense that one “gets” it like tuberculosis or cancer. Still, there is a great deal about us that is congenital and that doesn’t entitle us to permanent employment. If alcoholism is a congenital disability, so is being short, having a bad temper, going bald, and having funny-looking ears. It sounds like the ADA definition is a typical example of politicians trying to define in law something that doesn’t even make sense scientifically.
@Green and Brian,
You’re both right.
The City with its legal advisers is inept, incompetent and in some cases corrupt that leave WE THE TAXPYERS screwed to foot the bill. IMO they can’t fight their way out of a paper bag. Let alone realize they are in a paper bag.
First order of business is to fire:
City Attorney Howard Delaney
Asst. City Attorney Roco Treppiedi
All are free to read my punch list for Mayor Condon:
Spokane City Council Resolution on Reform to Spokane PD
http://tinyurl.com/6qwpvpr
I’m sorry but he will be a one-term mayor if he doesn’t follow through on his campaign promise to fire Treppiedi.
Brian,
I agree Thoma should have been fired for moral turpitude from the hit and run that goes directly to conduct unbecoming an officer (CUBO) per SPD policy. I agree one DUI will not get you fired but there was this additional factor in this case.
The City bungled this case just as they have done in a long line of cases - FIRE DELANEY and TREPPIEDI NOW Mayor Condon for gosh sakes.
There is little money to waste because of the other fraud and abuse of public funds that is hemorrhaging from the City coffers that no one seems to care about. I’m not talking chump change either - this ranges from the $10 to $100 millions of dollars.
Why do you suppose the City had to cut an essential governmental service - the SPD Crimes Against Property unit? This was a bait and switch to CYA for the other losses. See Meghann’s article and comment thread for the fall out of this poor policy decision in the Sunday’s paper - http://tinyurl.com/7edqpkj
Green,
You are quite correct had Thoma SOUGHT help first then he could would have been covered under the ADA and could avail himself to the rehabilitation/recovery services. BUT he didn’t.
Dunn is wallpapering here on those WHO HAVE NOT sought treatment before they run amok because of an addiction issue. There were a number of things the City could have done short of firing Thoma and kept him on a short leash legally but they screwed this up to.
Here’s a bit of free advice.
Police leadership DON’T LISTEN to the legal advice of DELANEY and TREPPIEDI. Mayor Condon should do this as well. In fact run away as fast as possible screaming FIRE FIRE!
Here’s a one stop shop for similar matters dealing with the American with Disabilities Act (ADA). It’s FREE for employees and employers alike. The ADA isn’t the great dragon for employers that some make it out to be - Dunn.
The Job Accomodation Network - http://askjan.org/
Connect with JAN
(800)526-7234 (Voice) (877)781-9403 (TTY)
@Brian
Actually, had they handled it properly, he should have been fired for Felony DUI Hit and Run.
Give me a “ZEE!”
Slednek509…Actually around the state Spokane has a new nickname..”SpookyHollow”, Wa. 1st place!
?? Ron_the_Cop ??
?? You have your very own punch list for Mayor Condon; and your own web site ??
?? My, aren’t you special ??
When a police officer drives drunk, crashes his truck, and then leaves the scene of the accident, yes, that should be a career ending event, just as it would be for any one in the real world private sector who had to drive for a living.
Driving drunk is not a disease - someone made a decision to get in the car after drinking to a BA of 2 1/2 times the legal limit.
Drunk driving and hit and run crashes are serious crimes,not a disease. Nice to know that our PD is run by serious criminals.
I’ll give the SPD the respect they deserve - none.
@Riddler,
Yes I do:-)
So, he has this disease, huh? That means that he was impaired during work and if I had been arrested by him previous to his “Cops don’t need to be held to higher standards” hit and run, I would be finding a lawyer to sue the city right about now!!!
Mayor, fire Delaney and Treppedi NOW!!! How much of our money will be wasted by allowing these two COMPLETE IMBECILES to continue to assist you???
What does it take for an officer to do before he gets fired and stays fired? Kill someone? Bwahahahahaha!
Mayor Condons first 100 days plan, item #1 is already a major #FAIL: “Restoring public trust in law enforcement and enhance community health and safety.”
Fails on both counts.
Congratulations to Det. Thoma and congratulations to the City of Spokane for doing the right thing. I imagine some of you will be clamoring to fire Erin Jacobsen now instead of Rocky.
The “disease concept” came about through research done on the differences between alcoholics brains and normal peoples. Alcoholics brains change alcohol into something called THIQ that is similar to morphine and very addictive therefore driving a person to seek more. A normal person’s does not and most of them get sleepy instead of feeling “up.” However, in my estimation police need to sign contracts that if and under certain situations they waive their right to be a police officer. It is ludicrus to believe that an officer can carry a gun and be a drunk much less arrest one. Kirkpatrick was woefully inept at dealing with what should have been “proper procedure” for disciplining such individuals. She vowed to fire bad cops but didn’t investigete how she could do this properly. Now she wants to be Chief in Phoenix!!
Just to show how bad it can get the SPD had an Officer who remained home for well over four years at full pay; he had to call in at the beginning of the shift and the end of the shift for a while (I don’t remember how long the calling in continued). There was a dispute over whether he was alcoholic or nuts. The local pension board refused to allow his disability retirement and ordered him back to work. He appealed to the state pension board that denied his disability claim so he was ordered back to work. During that time the case was receiving some media attention and the SPD couldn’t figure out what to do to with him.They learned that he had taken his own medical records off of the desk of one of the shrinks. So in order to try and get rid of him they wanted to put a theft case together and they tried to assign it to an “inept” Major Crimes Detective. The Detective refused to accept the case because it was an obvious attempt to try and find a way to get rid of him because the administration couldn’t handle it. The Detective was called into Chiefs Office and reminded of his job description and the possible ramifications of not following a direct order. The Detective again refused the case, and demonstrated all the issues involved, and the stupidly of trying such a move. It went no further.
The City returned him to work even though some shrinks had diagnosed him as being nuts. Shortly after the officers return to work they found him walking in and out of traffic, he told the shrink he was trying to kill himself. Finally after all those years they retired him.
If you are going to get rid of a cop you have to do it legally and right, and not just because of what media or the public might think, if you don’t it will cost in the end.
It is truly disturbing that when a police officer commits a crime in Spokane they have opportunities to turn it into endless litigation and seemingly get endless “do overs” until they get an outcome they consider favorable.
If it was you, me, or anyone else not a cop, the police would be doing everything in their power to get the maximum penalty for the accused. And then, when someone brings up the idea of body cameras on all police, they balk at it and give 100 reasons why such things are not needed or are too expensive.
If I hit someone and drive away, no matter if alcohol was involved in the accident or not, I would be charged possibly with manslaughter if the person died, leaving the scene of an accident, and for sure have my license revoked. Why is it a different standard for porkers?
Just another day in Spoketuky.
Move along, folks. Nothing to see here.
I’d still like to know what is happening with the Dan Lessor officer involved shooting. This is the third time in less than five years that Lessor killed a Spokane citizen and is allowed a lengthy paid vacation until his actions are deemed justifiable. It will be interesting to see how Ozzie and his boys claim a person hanging from their seatbelt in an upside down van posed an “imminent threat.”
Was that investigation concluded? Did I miss the results being published?
Ron? Brian? What’s taking so long?
@Live
I don’t think it would have reached a felony level apparently there were no injuries.
@BlueHealer
What would your position be regarding Ms Jacobson okaying the media release of Harvey’s termination letter? Assuming she did. It was her case, as I understand.
Think that might cost some bucks? I do!
@The_Seer
Who knows? I hope it is because they are doing a good job.
Ahhhh…… more Spokan’t JUSTUS, I see.
@BlueHealer
How about this fictional conversation?
Anne: Erin I want to release Harvey’s termination letter to the media so everyone knows what a scoundrel he is. I don’t care if he hasn’t gone to trial. I want everyone to know we are kicking the crap out of these guys. It will make us all look great.
Erin: Sounds good to me, lets do it. Maybe Doug Clark will right a piece about it.
Anne: Think we have anything to worry about as far as the Nicks deposition statements are concerned.
Erin: Heck no, we got this guy by the you know what’s, and you know how Nicks is.
Anne: Good consider it done.
I don’t have a problem with alcoholism being considered a disease under the ADA. I recognize it can be a disabling fight towards sober. However, the employer accommodations don’t have to include returning him to a position in which he can potentially harm himself or someone else or is prone to bad judgement when good judgement is necessary and serious. Alcoholics face a life long battle often with many relapses.IMO although legally disabled, he is not fit for the position and can not be reasonably accommodated. The ADA recognizes that not all positions can be reasonably accommodated. He should have been allowed to receive his disability retirement and left the department as soon as his alcoholism was identified years ago.thus saving us all this convoluted expensive legal fight. I don’t know Thoma, but clearly he has a disease that prevents employment as a peace officer in the same way a visually impaired person should not expect to see continued employment as a surgeon or a soldier returning to the battlefield sans legs. The issue here is the lack of judgement displayed by the Chief and leaders once again that has cost taxpayers in all ways.The SPD lacks this expertise and consolidation should be considered to at least try and stem the continuing effects of bad leadership.
Like the fact that a cop can’t get fired for being a drunk or not, the police chief should have known the rules and was completely foolhardy. She could have gotten rid of him properly in another way for the hit and run but she did not know what she was doing. She should have never held the office. I am amazed that anyone would want her after such expensive, and incompetent mistakes. Thanks a lot for all the money you cost us, you can’t leave town too soon!
Most intelligent post on this topic goes to brianrbreen, for his 10:21AM comment.
The rest of you should re-inflate your whoopie cushons.
Has anyone else seen a pattern. Should Police Officers be held to a higher standard? For public opinion they sure are but whats funny is that the legal process disagrees.
The city throws these Officers to the wolves when they mess up. (I’m not defending the Officers, there needs to be standards of punishment) The city gets to look like a victim when these men and women get their jobs back with back pay or settlements.
Wouldn’t it be more reasonable to have punishment on the front end?
Queen Anne will continue to cost the city for her decision making. She and Princess Vernor will cost the City for their man / cop hating ways for years to come!
@Brian
I often wondered why the detective who worked undercover in the SIU who was fired after developing a drug habit didn’t seek a disability retirement and treatment under workman comp.He would not longer have been on the force and would have received needed treatment The goal in the whole thing is to get the bad guys off the force, which includes those who are unable to function effectively because of a mental/physical disability AND those who can’t function effectively but can’t use a disability as their excuse.
@Brian “They learned that he had taken his own medical records off of the desk of one of the shrinks”
How is that not stealing? Were the records something he brought to the office and then took with him when he left?
zzzzzzzzzzzzz
Same whiners. Same complainers. Same ol’, same ol’. Don’t you guys ever have anything else to do beside sit here & bash the police, the city, or/and those in authority? Sheesh……..you all are tiring.
YES folks….don’t close your checkbooks yet…..Lil Old Annie isn’t done costing us tax payers money yet….WAIT until Harvey’s law suit gets settled….. believe he is suing for a mere 10 million……
?? …settlement mediated by the Washington State Human Rights Commission….??
?? A) Do we know what Bob Dunn, Thoma’s attorney, had initially asked for in the settlement ??
?? B) Do we know what the City’s initial position in the settlement was ??
?? If we knew A) and B), would we be in a better position to judge the fairness of the settlement… or the degree to which the city got “screwed” ??
Article:
“Dunn likened the incident to someone who got into a collision as a result of seizure caused by epilepsy.”
What an idiotic statement.
?? Anyone ??
?? Doesn’t the police benefits package include something for Short-Term or Long-Term Disability ??
?? If so….wouldn’t situations like Officer Thoma’s qualify ??
Being a criminal isn’t justification for being fired as a POLICE officer sworn to UPHOLD the LAW???
brianbreen wrote,
“When the Americans with Disabilities Act included alcoholism as a disease and disability it closed the door on the automatic termination of public employees for DUI, most law enforcement and government agencies are very aware of that.”
It also closed the door on common sense. Alcoholism is *not* a disease, by any rational definition of that word.
@Shelala
One of them did receive a medical retirement. The reason that particular one did was because in his reports he stated on several occasions he was “tasting” the drugs. His supervisors read the reports, approved the reports and did nothing in the way of seeing if there was a problem. It was an awful situation and a real mess. There other case involved a number of other issues.
@silverlake89
Your medical records are just that, your medical records, you have a right to them. Sure someone could probably come up with some stupid reason to try and charge a misdemeanor theft of paper. But only someone real dumb would try and build a case with the sole purpose of getting rid of a guy, especially when the records were copied and originals returned.
@Catbox
You are close, but you don’t have it exactly right.
Maybe they should classify the SPD as a non profit sheltered workshop for transitioning alcoholics, drug users and anger management drop outs. The SPD funding problems would be solved and the public’s expectations would finally be aligned.
@GS
How is that insurance billing job going? :)
GREAT….maybe you should TRY and get a job or volunteer somewhere….make your lonely existence go much quicker…..might help ya drop a little of that 300lbs+ too….
@GS/justme09/IanJones
I honestly don’t understand why you are so afraid of me. Remember I’m an old crippled up irrelevant, inept, lying, good for nothing that no one cares about or listens to, without friends, who developed deep-rooted psychological problems during my troubled fat boy high school days.
Why so, so, much fear of me?
Oh…never mind the above…I remember now.
So it doesn’t appear that Thoma was ever diagnosed by an actual medical doctor. Under what authority can this “Commission” make a medical diagnoses?
Hiding behind the ADA is a monumental insult to anyone with an actual disability. As others have pointed out, drunk driving, causing an accident, and leaving the scene of a crime certainly isn’t part of any disability.
The city needs to buck up and fight this to protect it’s citizens. That might require getting an actual attorney.
I am sure Doug Clark will get the blame when he writes about this farce as well. Shoot the messenger instead of solving the problem, typical Spokane.
@ Plan B
Good call on the city getting a REAL attorney! Pretty much ALL of these lawsuits could’ve been avoided if the city had one, huh? Kinda makes one wonder if they aren’t getting kickbacks from everyone benefiting from all of the lawsuits, huh? We all KNOW how that good ‘ol boy network works, right? Makes me REALLY wonder if these so called attorneys aren’t making some $ off of their crappy advice?
AGAIN wrong….Im not Ian…but think what ya like…makes no difference….and please don’t think I am afraid of you….I PITY you…..such a lonely existence you have…the computer is your only friend…
Sounds good to me. :)
@GS,
How about talking substance and not making it personal with those who post here. Everyone’s entitled to their own opinions. It would be nice to post sources/references/facts to back up opinions expressed.
This site like many in the new/alternative/social media serves as the new town square. Don’t be surprised if you can’t convince others of your opinion/position if others may critically attack your thoughts. But try not to make it personal.
Capiche?
Ron_the_Cop
I kind of equate GS to a politician representing a particular constituency. The more the politician opens his/her mouth the better understanding people have of the constituency represented. I have no problem with the attacks I think they help to demonstrate some of the points that many people make here.
Besides…how do you expect GS to set the record for most deleted poster if the personal attacks don’t continue? I know it gives @michaelm a work out but until @michaelm gets out of the doghouse, he will have to put up with it.
Whenever I speak to someone who does not live in our city about moving here, they always cite the out of control police force, as a reason they would never move here. Don’t you consider that a problem Ron the Cop?
Ron….did you say something? On no…just same old rhetoric….When you speak It just kind of runs into the same ole blah blah blah that the city council hears when your blabbering….
@GS
My point:-)
@Smartguy,
I chose to come here for this regions many fine attributes. It wasn’t until after I got here did I realize the significant issues with the local CJ System.
I guess my level of expectations for LE are higher than what goes for the norm here. Sorry I will call a shovel a shovel when I see one.
@ (less than)Smartguy
I think Doug “Doughboy” Clark is too busy rating hookers at the moment to even know whats going on.
As far as this goes people keep saying the Police are out of control. The City has an Ombudsman, what has he found that is worth the $200k it costs the city for him and his office? I’m guessing not much or the news would amplify it beyond reason in this city.
The bloggers here are biased to the point of unreasonableness. I would imagine those bloggers with jobs, the very few, have bad apples where they work. Lets blame an entire department for a few people. We have bloggers bringing up incidents from the 80’s involving drugs and rental properties and lawsuits. Well name those Officers as those things are matters of public record. Or just make more things up.
Also most of the people that blog do not know the difference between the SPD and SCSO which i find disturbing, since its a simple distinction.
Look at the facts here. Its DUI, a lot of people have them. Is Thoma’s way back to his job kind of full of BS? Likely, but given his situation which one of you wouldn’t do the same thing.
If the situation had been handled right to begin with then the city wouldn’t be in the spot that they are. If you want to put blame somewhere put it on the City Officials handling it.
Has anyone noticed that City Officials in an attempt to “get tough” on the Police Dept have cost citizens lots of money?
.
http://www.kbmlawyers.com/news.newlunvdrs.pdf
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2026&dat=19870504&id=5pQrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=8tAFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6230,3615100
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1345&dat=19861007&id=6UFYAAAAIBAJ&sjid=y_kDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5971,1315660
@Mr_Injustice
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1345&dat=19900319&id=Y-4iAAAAIBAJ&sjid=_PkDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6713,2497196
There is a lot more if you want. If not I’ll refrain.
You are absolutely right, there are many, many good cops on the SPD that are taking a hit for the few bad ones. Where in the hell are the good ones, why aren’t they standing up.
@Mr_Injustice
I might add that yes I’ve noticed what the City has done, and I’ve Spokane out about it. If the good cops think the City Attorney’s Office is their friend they might think about a retirement because they are nuts. It has only hurt them.
Still no supporters for the drunk Hit and Run Spokane Cop? May fav part of this whole bs story is the defense that its the SPD’s fault because they knew he was a drunk and that his job stressed him out so much he drank. Wtf is that? Spokane Police Department is joke and it is wreckless. Shonto Pete, Otto Zhem…and countless others. We need to do something bout this.
@MrJustice
The point is the fact that those elected and appointed leaders have/are faling to “get tough” with the SPD obviously lack the knowledge, ability and leadership skills necessary to accomplish the task. The fact that they seem to rely heavily upon the legal advice of inept city legal probably plays a huge role. If you follow the rope back to its end, it probably begins there.
Dredging up incidents from the past involving SPD serves as a sort of indicator of how long problems have existed and how they had been handled in the past.The comparisons magnify significant differences relating to leadership and city growth. If we can’t learn from them, we are doomed to repeat the mistakes or successes.
I agree with you regarding the ombudsman position, but I haven’t decided he is ineffective due to constraints placed on him by the guild and SPD or if he just hasn’t got it together.
Blogs give people a chance to hear other perspectives from people from all walks of life that make up this community. While I might not agree, I respect their opinions, (with exception of maybe GS who is clearly has his own agenda/identity/anger issues).
“Dunn likened the incident to someone who got into a collision as a result of seizure caused by epilepsy.”
That’s why those with epilepsy are usually prohibited from driving for at least 12 months, minimum, to insure their seizures are under control. If Thoma has a disease that has effects similar to epilepsy, as Dunn alleges, why was Thoma driving at all?
Either the city legal staff is not very bright or they always intended to let the PD union win.
BTW, I have heard about those elusive “good cops” and can halfway understand that they have no real vehicle to speak out in the same way their bad counterparts seem to freely enjoy daring to do, but law enforcement is known for strong pulls of peer pressure. Is it because you are out numbered? I also think that some of the cops who label themselves as “good cops” may have some problems with self reflection.
@misjustice
Where in the hell are you?
Make that “spoken out about it” and not “Spokane out about it”.
Although I do know there are some that would like me out of Spokane.
@Mr. Injustice/Blogger…the bad apples at my work don’t carry guns. They also didn’t take an oath to Serve and Protect. Along with that comes responsibility. You are correct, a first DUI is not uncommon. Being a Police Officer and leaving the scene to “get steaks” is. He should have been prosecuted…end of story.
@Shelala,
I couldn’t have said it better. The problem is systemic and it starts in the City Attorney’s Office. The citizens are not being served well and or getting their money’s worth.
HINT: Mayor Condon
You have the power given to you by the people. FIRE Delaney and Treppiedi before we waste any more of our hard earned money. And if you didn’t catch my drift in the other thread if you’re taking legal counsel re SPD from McDevitt and Ormsby, be very cautious as Treppiedi may very well be holding wood on both of them to protect his job.
Here’s an enlightened move hire Attorney Bob Dunn:-)
Update on this story coming soon.
Spokane Mayor David Condon is defending the plan to rehire Thoma, even though he feels it sends the “wrong signal.”
SR reporter Chelsea Bannach will have a web version with today’s developments posted to the homepage shortly.
David Wasson
deputy city editor
Mayor Condom doesn’t give a rats azz about this. He got elected, now he can just sit back and wait for his master (McMoro) to call with her orders. If an airline pilot, doctor, lawyer or many other professions did this same thing they would be gone. I wonder how many times he was out and about under the influence while in uniform. “He said it’s rare for officers to be caught driving drunk.” The key word here is CAUGHT. This dipwad was probably DUI many times before this while on duty, but the good ole boy club took care of him. I wonder how many Spokane LEOs will salute him when he comes back.
What would the difference in 4 million be as opposed to the amount paid in this agreement?
@Davidw,
Very interesting. I wonder where Mayor Condon is getting his legal counsel nowadays.
Yes the City is between a rock and a hard place and Dunn is applying pressure. Chief Kirkpatrick and others screwed this up from the get go as I addressed above.
Dunn is wrong regarding Thoma falling within the protection of the ADA. Had Thoma previously sought treatment then we could have this debate but Thoma didn’t. There are many issues of negligent retention though.
IMO Thoma should get a fair settlement that doesn’t include being returned to work because of the moral turpitude issue. Thoma knows full well he is subject to CUBO and other related policy related conduct issues.
Short of that the City should demand mandatory rehab and alcohol/drug testing. Thoma should be given a very clear last chance letter with any violation being an immediate termination.
Also did anyone notice that Thoma seems to have gotten a special deal in the handling of his criminal DUI and hit and run case. A conviction probably would led to an immediate termination for the moral turpitude issue with his continued employment as a police officer.
@catbox
No problem…inept perhaps…but with a decent memory. :)
The adoption by the medical/legal community of the “disease model” of alcoholism would be funny if it weren’t so tragic. My guess is that the same “brain science” that detects changes in the ol’ cortex from habitual drinking would also find that a lot of time honing one’s golf swing on the driving range also changes the brain physiology in some way. This would make golfing a disease too. Which, in my case, it is.
Another update on its way, too:
Washington Human Rights Commission is distancing itself from the plan calling for Thoma’s rehiring, saying its involvement in the case is being exaggerated by Spokane City Hall and the officer’s legal counsel. The commission’s executive director met with Gov. Gregoire today and just told our reporter that she hasn’t signed off on anything.
David Wasson,
deputy city editor
I think it is important to note that the State Human Rights Commission mediated this case. Which tells me both parties agreed to it instead of litigation. Dunn knew going in he had a winner and the only issue was the settlement. He probably also knew he wouldn’t get as much money going this way, but the client would get his job back and back pay.
The city knew going in they were toast.
Come on @davidw, why would the City or a lawyer try and BS the public.
@Brian — crack me up.
Several developments on this story broke all at about the same time. Brunt and Cuniff are out of the office today (don’t read anything to that) and Chelsea is scrambling to pick up all the loose ends.
Litigation duck, which might not work out. Both parties apparently still reached a settlement so it will probably still be up to the City Council.
You mean Brunt and Cuniff are getting married?
Just kidding! :)
Brain says:
You are absolutely right, there are many, many good cops on the SPD that are taking a hit for the few bad ones. Where in the hell are the good ones, why aren’t they standing up.
Probably the same place you were when poor old Mary was being picked on by SPD……you sat back and did NOTHING
Haha…so the WHRC doesn’t endorse the “proposed deal”. Thank DOG someone outside of Spokompton has some freakin brains!
Here’s the link to the new related article on Mayor Condon supporting the deal:
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2012/feb/22/mayor-defends-thoma-settlement/
I’ve noticed a correlation between BB making intelligent comments and GS resorting to low blow tactics to distract the blog. Who is it again that sits in front of the computer because he has no friends? Pot calling the kettle black? I’m wondering if GS can give us some ideas on how to get criminal cops out of service?
@GS
You are perceptive; I was nowhere to be found.
Keep working at it you’ll find something.
I think the post calling for higher standards hit it on the nose. But sadly like most careers public sector is nothing more now then a job.
My generation took pride in our careers, the teachers were gifted, the firemen courageous, the policemen friendly, and they were all there standing proud. Now they are just jobs, filled by some that simply do not belong in that career but they are there non the less protected by evil union worker laws..boooooo
As a property owner i would not mind so much that i am paying these union workers 50% more in wages(+benefits) then private sector if they were still gifted, courageous, and kind. But now many of them have the professionalism of a street bum sucking on a wine bottle all day.
And the likes of Hirzel, Olsen, Torok, Thompson, Thoma, Harvey, the list goes on……simply do not belong in the police profession.
I wonder how happy the judges will be he is back? They will get to re hear every two bit DUI, drunk and disorderly case on the books all the convicted folks yelling I’m sick I’m sick,….burp i need a drink…..really shudge i’m shick!
on a lighter side, recently reported on the news w/o unemployment more people are trying to get their SSI for mental issues. Now all they have to do is be an alcoholic, at the same time liquor sales will soar more young kids will be needed to serve the disabled drunks, the union workers will have to support them since they will be the only ones with jobs.
Kind of like what goes around…….
I confess I had a hard time standing up myself until the end. I was on the negotiating team 20 years ago and the first training I went to in Tacoma I went with three male members of the team. I remember them laughing and bragging about previous trainings and how they would get drunk out of their minds and then flip a coin to see who was going to drive. Then they thought it cool to fall asleep during training the next day. Your tax dollars at work. And don’t you know the next day one of them DID fall asleep. I remember one St. Patrick’s day parade and I was helping out at the Colosseum where the floats were starting. An inebriated officer was talking to me about which float he was going to drive. And off he went. Yes I should have turned in that drunk driver for sure. It was a very hard place to work when they would get you if you didn’t keep quiet. Females and minorities were being attacked left and right. When I finally did start talking it was apparent to me, if you’ve read other blogs I’ve written, that they were going to make a big deal out of very little to get even.
There should be some kind of silent witness program at the SPD so officers can turn in stuff they have seen. There was a female officer I knew that was an alcoholic and I often found her to be a decoration on calls. She seemed to be hung over and I often had to help her do her job. One time I had the call done before she even got out of the car. Another time I had to cuff and search her prisoner for her. She seemed to be in her own world. I heard later that she got treatment by listening to a relapse prevention teacher at EWU talk about her in his class. Not a good idea for him. Yes drinking is and will continue to be a problem at SPD. There is, however, a huge difference between reporting a person with an alcohol problem and seeing excessive force that caused a death seen on a video tape but saying it was the right thing to do.
HMMM…..a cop that couldn’t stand up for herself….Yup sounds like someone shouldn’t have been a cop in the first place…..
“sounds like someone shouldn’t have been a cop in the first place”
Hey I know a few of those…besides me and Mary…do you know any others.
Also Stephens says that drunk driving does not have to be a career ending event….just don’t do it again. What about hit and run? Thoma didn’t just drive from point A to point B in an inebriated condition. He committed another crime as well. I don’t see “crime” as something that should be “disciplined” in a police officer. I see that as a sign that they should not be a police officer. What kind of discipline is being a detective on a police department–-I say it’s NOT DISCIPLINE AT ALL!!! Wow, what a punishment. I think being a slick sleeve patrol officer again would be a better idea, if that. The disease of alcoholism should not give police the right to commit crimes. Because officers drive and carry guns, tasers, night sticks, etc they should not be allowed to do a policing job if they have that problem.
Nope…Just you and Mary…
I heard a joke once that went something like this:
Kid kills both of his parents. When he went to trial, he insisted that consideration should be made for him because now he was an orphan.
How is this any different?
Take the alcohol out of the equation and you still have running into another vehicle and speeding away to flee the scene. Officer qualities…? Why isn’t that enough to warrant the loss of his job… Also, if the “stress” of being a police officer caused the alcohol problem how does it make sense to hire him back, even in a different position, into that same stress?…
So as a “detective” will he “investigate” DUI’s and hit and run’s……? LOL (in disgust)
This continues a trend of bad decisions/advice coming from the prosecutor’s office irt the deals worked out and advice they provided to the city in this regard..
This is yet another reason many people are getting tired of “collective bargaining” agreements that create “huge loopholes” like this for their members. It’s practically impossible to fire someone anymore and when you do, even when “justified”, you end up having to provide back pay and attorney costs…
This contract needs to be “renegotiated” such that any officer who commits a felony worthy crime will be subject to termination “no matter what” plea bargain is arranged for his/her personal record. Speeding and parking tickets are one thing, but this type of behavior “cannot” be tolerated by a “law enforcement officer”.
Additionally, the contract should stipulate that they serve at the pleasure of the city and the ultimate decision as to their employment is always with the city period…
Btw, if you’re really upset, and you want to make an impact, go to the city council meeting on Monday. You can make an even bigger impact by signing up to speak on the topic.
Can we all agree that the Public Sector and their Unions have an ENTITLEMENT PROBLEM !!!